There is a elephant in the Buzztouch room that nobody wants to talk about so I will. I truly believe the prices for some of the BT Plugins are outrageous! I understand it takes time, knowledge and skill to create a plug-in but it seems like some of the BT-Plugin developers are doing it to get rich and not necessarily help the BT community. Do they know that Some of the best ideas were not created due to money but they were created due to necessity. Some BT develoeprs are getting “FREE” code from Github then converting and converting them to a BT Plugin. Then charge outrageous prices for a code that was attained for FREE. I agree a developer should charge for their time spent on converting “FREE” Github code to a BT Plugin but what happened to people creating things for the love and pleasure they get of creating something that wasn’t theirs and in turn helping people. The most used Plugin “Menu With Image” is reasonably priced at $1.99 for Members and I strongly believe it’s a great pricing model to follow. Reasonable pricing structures make it more possible for people to purchase not feeling like they are getting ripped off or taking advantage of. I would bet anybody that Susan gets the most downloads out of every plugin on the market because her plugin is priced reasonably. I praise the developers who had the courage to make free plugins, transitioned their once paid plugin to FREE, lowering their price of their plugin but most of to those developers who continue to price their plugins reasonably. These people share the vision Dave has for Buzztouch which is to help people create Apps by giving them the open source code for a reasonable price. The proof that Dave wasn’t trying to get rich off of people is, he changed his pricing model to make it more affordable for anyone. One would say he lost money by modifying his pricing structure but I believe his goal was to make his product affordable and attractive to potential members. So the question I would ask Plugin developers is, are you making BT-Plugins to get rich so you price them high? Are you taking advantage of members who don’t know how to code so you create a bunch of plugins hoping to gain residual income? Or are you creating plugins and pricing them reasonably because you truly want to help the community? Other gripes: 1. Why are people making game plugins borrowed from Github and reselling to them to the BT community? I can buy the same game in the Google Play Store/App Store for a cheaper price. 2. Why are developers creating duplicate plugins? (Is your motive driven by money?) 3. Why are developers buying plugins, adding one or two features and reselling it back to BT Community for more then the original Plugin.? What is your motive? 4. Why are developers only creating IOS plugins instead of universal plugins? What made BT popular was you could create 1 plugin and spit out code for the 2 most popular platforms. My advice to all plugin developers who are trying to get rich by creating plugins is to stop focusing on the money and focus on creating plugins because you want to help the community. Helping people should be the key not money. I want to hear other people’s thoughts on this matter. Sincerely, Da Kamel

Some of these plug ins could cost hundreds or even thousands of dollars to get developed if you do not have the skills to develop your self. I am very greatful fro the market place and where it is right now.

They maybe FREE, but could you turn them into a plugin? The answer to that, for the vast majority of us, is NO. I appreciate their hard work. However; I do AGREE that a few are overpriced. But that down to the buyer to decide. How much do you need it?!?! I personally think, a lower cost could sell more, rather than a few downloads at a higher price. I used to think the InAppPurchase plugin was high at $16. BUT I needed it for my app ideas, and it made me £2000+ last year in my apps so looking at it now, I would happily spend $50! I'm not sure about the games.....but a lot of people are jumping on the Flappy Birds band wagon, and someone has created a plugin that allows you to release one just for a few $. I was one that created a duplicated plugin. It wasn't a copy, just happen to release around the same time as the other. I got abusive emails from certain members on here, so thought sod it and made it free. I can also see you only registered today so that's quite a big statement yo make on your first post :) Each to our own opinions though Fan of Buzztouch, keep up the good work!

Interesting conversation. Looking forward to hearing what some of the other plugin developers say! Mark

Supply and demand, my friend. Humans are capitalistic at best and worst. And none of the prices are pie-in-the-sky. BT is a special place where non-coders have access to plug-ins and can build successful apps, and businesses, without devoting weeks, months, and years to learning code. They enjoy the fellowship of people that have devoted time to those pursuits, but are willing to help them along the way. Hang out in the Forums for awhile, watch, and learn about our community, before you criticize so harshly. I think you'll be surprised at what you find - and you may revise your stand. Blue skies, Wanda

Thank you for your advice. Whew! I'm so glad I was caught before I got rich. ;) I'll answer your points in order: 1) Because they can. Are you here to 'build' an app, or 'buy' an app? If you're here to buy one, you might be in the wrong place. Unless it's a custom app. But if you're not happy with the price of plugins, you won't be at all happy with my app quote. Quite often it's thousands of dollars. And you want to quibble about a plugin that costs $10-$50? If you're here to build an App, then I might remind you that no single plugin costs more than I charge for an hour of my time. And thus, are easily worth the cost because they will save me more than just a single hour. 2) Duplicate plugins are usually caused by duplication. One developer in one country didn't realize another developer in another country was doing the same thing. It happens. Choose the one that works best for your needs. Unless it costs too much, I suppose. 3) It's sort of like that 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' thing. If it works, use it. If it doesn't, use something else. We're not forcing you to 4) I hate to break the news to you, but Android and iOS are different operating systems. If a developer releases an iOS and not Android (or visa-versa, but primarily it's iOS over Android) it's probably because they know how to code in iOS, and not Java. They're not 'exactly' the same, and it can be a rather interesting challenge to accomodate both. I know this. I'd love to see more Android love, but I understand completely why there isn't. Don't complain to the iOS plugin builders because they don't do Android, complain to Google about making Android tools mimic those available in iOS. A) Prices are set by the developer, and each person values their time and contribution differently. Even if the code is ripped right off of Github (as with my concentration game, for instance) it takes time to make a 'BT Plugin' from the code. That still has value. B) There is also the option to just create your own plugin, if you're not satisfied with the options in the BT Marketplace. After your third or fourth day re-creating the wheel, I'm sure you'll find most plugins attractively priced. C) If you think that plugin developers are 'here to make money' I invite you to create one and watch the dollars literally roll in. Of course, when I laugh at that statement, I'm not laughing 'at' you, I'm laughing because I know the grim truth: You can make more at McDonalds than in the plugin market. It's not up to you to set the price of a plugin, the type of OS it works with, or the function of the plugin. That is up to the developer. If you wish to make a change that you consider positive, you might think about trying to help by doing, rather than stand on the sidelines and complain. Just my opinion, but you know… I'm a capitalist ;) Cheers! -- Smug Edited for AlanMac's question below: My 'Location Menu' is my most expensive plugin. Took me about two months to get it where I wanted it. Most of the time was spent in Android. Total sales over the last month have netted me just under $100. So, you know, drinks are on me. My 'Smug Message Location' free plugin, took me about 3-4 weeks to build (it was my first) has had hundreds of downloads over the last year, and with the 'non-member' price of $4.99, I walk away with a cool $15. Not bad, eh?

It would be interesting to see some stats for which plugins sell in high volumes and which ones don't.

I agree that the plugin prices have gone up a bit and maybe agree that they are over priced. Yes most come from free code, yes some developers convert it to bt plugins very easily, but that doesn't mean they should be cheap. Just because a developer can convert code to a bt plugin in short period of time, does not mean he should sell it for less. When you buy a plugin you should weigh the time/cost it will save you by being already setup and ready for buzztouch. Yes, this might be different from what David would do, that's why David is David, and we are each one... David decided to open up the market so we could have access for to more plugins, it would be too much to ask someone to just give it out or work for free. If you make an app for the client, do you only charge what it costs you? you don't make any profit? Thats good, noble of you, but then you're not like most, and it won't buy food for your table. You shouldn't ask others to do the same. Buying a plugin of flappy birds or buying a game of flappy birds is not the same thing. I truly don't even understand your statement on this. I know developers will not get much out of the plugin markets. All this to say I do agree with you, that some plugins are overpriced, but I tend to see how they could help me and if it's worth it. It's good to see different options here. Welcome to buzztouch. Cheers, Miguel

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My 2c that will get you nothing, not even a discount! First the caveat, I completely understand a developer can charge whatever they want and I concur. Some plugins are totally worth the price. I won't name names, but they are flexible, useful and meet the needs of many and some of us would have paid twice that we did! Some plugins I have bought have not done what I expected them to do. End result, I wasted the $ since it wasn't quite as expected. The documentation isn't always too clear. No I didn't complain, I just sucked it up :) I guess my 'hang up' is if a plugin is developed in 6 hours, is it worth $10 for somebody. Short answer, I expect so! There was a recent flood of plugins, mostly games. Would I use them if they were free? Yes. Will I pay for them? No. Why? Because I don't *need* them, they get thrown into a 'fun' spot in an app to appease Apple, and to make the app more appealing for somebody :) At the end of the day, I HAD hoped that there would be many new FREE useful plugins. This never really materialized (not that it should have), but I hoped it might plug some gaps. This I can live with. My first stop at BT is usually the plug in page to see what's new. Some days it's OOooo, some days it's Pah!, other days it's 'Oh...' but every days it's exciting to see what people come up with. I hope that like many things, items will eventually become free. Why not capitalize on something new initially, and drop the price later. I have bought a plugin only to have it go free a few weeks later :) Anyhow ramble over. Good on you for raising it, as I do think it's an elephant in the room too. We're generally a good bunch of guys all helping each other out, and nobody wants to think we're ungrateful as we appreciate all of them. Oh, rambling again...

Some great discussion going on here. I'll add my 2 cents (but for members, its free, lol) 1. A free market is a free market. Everything and anything is "worth what someone is willing to pay for it". That said, if someone is selling a plugin for "too much" and nobody buys it, it would make sense that the plugin developer would eventually lower the price. But if people do buy it at the asking price..... you get the point. Apple makes a really nice product called a "Mac Pro". It costs more than I am willing to pay for it. I wish it was much cheaper - but that doesn't make it worth any less than the asking price. Bottom line: None of the plugin developers have guns to your head forcing you to purchase. 2. The free code you can find at github, etc is available to anyone. If you are a member, you can create a private plugin (not for sale) using the same free github code and bypass purchasing the market plugins. The biggest difference is that you'd have to do all the work necessary to make it work in your control panel as a "plugin". For most, that's worth the ~$15 to let someone else do it. 3. Nobody is "getting rich" from the plugin market. :) 4. It seems a little silly to me for someone to try to influence the motives of any member of this community. Sure, we have a great community, which has been centered around a great open source product, and everyone recognizes the sense of generosity provided by Buzztouch and it's members. But that doesn't require everyone in this community to give things away (or for cheap). It's completely OK for someone to try to make a little money in the plugin market. Hell, its one of the selling points of the membership. This circles back to my first point. If someone tries to blatantly abuse the open market by selling a plugin for "too much", I doubt anyone will buy it. Period. But if plugin developers try to recoup some of their investment through plugin sales - good for them. If you find something in the market that is helpful to you and you agree with the price - buy it. If you don't - don't.

Im very happy for those plugin developers! You guys rock! charge what you want. This is one of the most exciting times for BT.

So,@DaKamel, "There is a elephant in the Buzztouch room that nobody wants to talk about so I will." According to your profile you registered as a Buzztouch guest today about 2 hours before you posted on the forum and had viewed 38 pages. Sounds like you learned an awful lot about Buzztouch, the plugin market, and the motives of plugin developers in the 2 hours since you registered. Who are you really.... just sayin...no wonder that "Kamel" is trying to bite your head off.

Lol... if you'd like me to share my plugin sales stats, I'd be happy to do so... let's see... my AVERAGE plugin takes about 10-15 hours of development time, and sells about 3-5 copies in the first 30 days (basically all within the first 48 hours). Most of my plugins are around the $6-$10 range. Now... buzztouch takes 30% of that, paypal accounting for another 5% roughly. So let's do the math based on averages... 4 plugins sales @ $8 each = $32 Minus Buzztouch's & Paypal Cut = $19 Divided by 12 hours = $1.58 an hour. Now, if I figure my time is only worth $1 an hour for each hour of support that I put into answering questions... hmmmmmm..... Anyone wanna sell me a stick of gum? Oh, and that doesn't take into account the couple of plugins that I have with 0 sales... or a few others with 1 sale for less than 5 bucks. Yeah... we're doing this to get rich. (rolling eyes) And you think Buzztouch prices are outrageous? Try contacting a retail app developer and get your $3,000 - $5,000 quote, then come tell me how expensive you think BT really is. Nobody is forcing you to use it. Go spend the money on a Udemy class instead, or go to your local community college and ask them what a semesters worth of classes will cost you to learn it.... unless the bus fare to the college is "outragous". I'll chip in the first $1.58 if you need it... If I can sell a plugin today that is. Oh, and to address your point about: "Why are developers only creating IOS plugins instead of universal plugins?"... I would have to ask why you didn't type this thread in Chinese??? Or Russian??? or maybe Portuguese??? Is it maybe because you don't know how to speak those languages? Because I sure don't know how to speak or write the Android language. Android developers may have the same issue programming iOS. But they have the same opportunity and method to come here and produce Android only plugins if they choose to do so. So Kamel, I encourage you.... step up to the plate with us and submit your dual language iOS/android plugin here (for free I might add) for us all to bask in. I'm interested to see what you come up with, and how many tens of dollars you think your time is worth. You talk about the true mission of Buzztouch being to help each other out and give back to the community. Let's take a look at the post counts next to each plugin developers name, and read the answers to the countless questions asked of them, and the solutions that they have given to all of the other members when an issue comes up... whether it's their plugin or not (more often it's not). Unlike the Kamel, who hides behind his true identity... which would be interesting to know since I believe that multiple accounts may be a violation of the TOS of Buzztouch. If you have an issue to address, at least do it from your real account.

Saw this thread on my iPhone earlier and didn't want to reply until I had read it again on my laptop. The people above who I admire and trust implicitly have said it all far more eloquently than I can. So now I needn't reply at all. But wait, this is surely a reply isn't it? Am I now talking to myself and spouting jibberish? Maybe, but you started it. There is no elephant. Please don't assume you speak for myself or others in the community. Last year I made $2,700,000 from plugin sales, sank it all into shares of a boot strap cowboy chaps clothing wear company, lost my ass. Please buy my gallery plugin so my 6 wives and 17 children can eat. Elephant indeed. There are a couple of plugins that are expensive, yes. I haven't bought them. When I do need them for a project I will buy them and then they become priceless to me. Looking forward to your second post. Yours in jest Keith

Ps Since you mentioned Github I believe the image you are using as an Avatar is subject to copyright and not owned by you. #justsayin Elephant? Camel? Muppet. Pps who the hell is this Dave you speak of?

I am happy for the plugin market and developers. I believe that they do a hard work to bring us useful plugins and the technical support. I think that the prices are affordable provided they help us to save lot of time. Thanks again, and we are waiting for more and more plugins.

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To me, there are no overpriced plugins. They are only worth what people will pay. I personally bought quite a few of them including the most expensive ones. Why? Because I do not want to take the time to learn how to make my apps from scratch. These plugin developers are essentially building my apps for me. All that I have to do is put it together. DaKamel, don't complain about the price. Just build your app with the free plugins. My first app was made with the free plugins and sells ok. OR, stop your whining and build your own plugins and get rich from them. Take charge of your own developing. No one at Buzztouch owes you anything. Make a commitment. Become a member of Buzztouch. And by the way...... Who the hell do you think you are coming here and complaining about anything? #justsayin Dave P.S. I'm not the Dave he speaks of

Wow, DaKamel are you serious ?? I am not as polite as the others, man you are seriously out of line, I am concerned for your mental well-being. Why don't you tell us who you really are, hiding behind a new user login, not man enough to post it under your normal profile?? Probably because deep down you know what you wrote is absolute trash. You are the kind of cowardly keyboard jockey we have not had the displeasure of seeing on this forum. You either need to change your understanding of pricing in general or take a hike mate. In my honest opinion these plugins are ALL a steal, you take your $5-20 elsewhere and see what you can get, you probably think fiverr should be called onerr? If you think it is so easy to do plugins, I challenge you to put just one in the market, put your typing fingers where your mouth is and code anything that you think is good value to the market. I am not holding my breath, you won't even be able to do a "Hello World" plugin. As the developers above have rightly said, you do the math on the prices and see how much time it takes to get these plugins done, I believe there are stacks of great plugins out there that they haven't even bothered to put in the market, because they won't get the cash that is worth the trouble of dealing with the questions and support (all included in the purchase fee). Mate, you get what you pay for, and guess what, no one is forcing you to buy the plugins, if you able to make your own then do that, spend 30+ hours making a plugin that would cost you less than a Big Mac. Simple economics, I like other people that have their heads on this earth value my time more than 16c per hour. If anything your post has put plugin development back 2 steps, I would like to see plugins that cost upwards of $100 that blow us away, enable us to make app super quickly with amazing functionality. You get what you pay for!! I encourage you to approach plugin developers on this platform when you are looking for a custom plugin and see what it costs, be sure to mention you DaKamel to get your discount ;) Rant over.... Kristen

Others have said what I believe here, but I'd like to add one thing: I wish I could buy every plugin that is released! iOS and Andriod - even though I haven't yet started developing for Android! Unfortunately finances don't allow me to. Why? To keep Buzztouch strong and growing! If spending $25 - $50 on Buzztouch credits a couple of times a year can keep Buzztouch around, it's some of the best money I'll spend all year. I WANT Buzztouch plugin developers to do well, I WANT them to make some money and keep updating their existing work and I WANT them all to grow to make new cool stuff! It helps them and it helps me! So, here's and idea: Every time I add credits and I buy a couple of plugins, I have a few cents left over when plugins don't cost an even $1. Right now I have 10¢ of credit in my account. (You probably do too!) If I could gift that surplus to a "freebie fund" for others to enjoy a free plugin now an again - in a raffle, a lottery, a giveaway contest - I'd do it happily! I'm sure most others here would gift their change too. And honestly, most others here would probably gift much more than my surplus 10¢. That's just who we are. We want to make cool stuff and we want to help others make cool stuff too. -William

Still looking for Dave? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qkiix0aveRk

Where is Dave? Who is he? Must get to the bottom of this. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tgI7kIkwca8 Still waiting for DaftKamel's second post. Dave? Dave? Are you there.

Dave's not here.........He says in a Cheech & Chong sort of way

.... And the developers of this plugin gave away everything ... http://www.buzztouch.com/forum/thread.php?tid=5D0CD4027153F3C46BEE768&command=isSearching&currentPage=1&topicTitle=Sound%20board&createdBy=&repliedBy=&minViews=-1&maxViews=-1&minReplies=-1&maxReplies=-1&forumCategory=

So where is he Calypso Kid? We must be told. Sod it. I'm just going to play patty cake until this gets resolved. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X3iFhLdWjqc Dave? Dave? Probably out drinking champagne, guzzling caviar by the bucket load, surrounded by Swedish concubines in his $3mill dollar yacht he bought with his ill begotten plugin sales while we all starve. @DaftKamel is right. Sod them all. Making these darn useful plugins for the price of a latte and packet of smokes. I demand justice. Picketing the White House tomorrow. Dave? Dave?

A lot of TLDR here and some great opinions by great folks and developers. I'm more interested in this because Mark is interested, not because some user who is hiding behind an alias. It almost feels like The Mole. Going on record as *not* the @DaftKamel and headed out to spend some ill begotten plugin sales with Dave who is currently knocking on my door.. + 1,000 points for that reference Calypso ;)

Hey Atrain, if you guys aren't using the Jet, do you mind sending the pilots to pick me up? I've got a lunch with Warren Buffet next week and I need to swing by Hong Kong to have a couple of suits made. I promise it'll be the last time. I've almost made enough for a G-5, but still might go with the Citation. What do you think? Cheers! -- Smug

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This has been a very interesting, and heated, discussion for sure! I'll admit that I didn't notice this was @DaKamel's first post at the start. Leaves little doubt that it's somebody else hiding behind a new account. In full disclosure, I make enough on my plugins each month to pay for my Spotify account. But that's about it. And I do struggle with how much to charge for the plugins. Sometimes they've been free, sometimes super cheap, and sometimes a bit more expensive. Ultimately I'll probably land on giving them away for free (sorry...all those who have paid for them!), but sometimes the "need" for money "makes" me charge for them. In any event, I think a few people have responded quite well in this post. This is a free market society, and the price will bear what people are willing to pay. That's absolutely true for any product in this country. Developers need to balance what they feel their time and effort are worth with what they think people are willing to pay. And then then likely end up charging even less. That's pretty much the way things work in such a market. As for taking free code from GitHub and packaging it up into something that can be sold...that happens all the time. As long as all the required attributions are made (and that might indeed be a separate issue), there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing that. And I would challenge anybody who thinks it's easy to give it a try, because it's not. Not much else to say. I think we've beat up @DaKamel enough, and he understands our point of view. If people want to buy plugins, they will. If they don't, they won't. Buzztouch will persevere either way, because the core product is that good. Rock on everybody! Mark

Thanks to all who decided to engage in this conversation. I proposed a question and some decided to throw insult instead of adding value to the topic. I think its sad that BT Members decided to omit Forum Rule #6 Be Nice Don't post hurtful or rude comments... it ruins it for everyone. We have a zero tolerance policy about this. If you're mean, hurtful, rude, or simply no fun to around, you'll be banned from the forum. Thank you Mark for answering my question in a professional manner. Kamel

Wow!! To get @Stephen Mercurio on here is not good..lol He is one of the nicest person I have "met" ever! So for him to post, something is really good or really bad..much love @Stephen Mercurio! ok @GoNorthWest can back me up on this: I taught myself to code and took me about 6-8 months to release my first plugin and still had help. @MacApple: Really? You made that much..lol I'm so jealous lol Good thing about buzztouch is free speech so speak away! LA

dont try to play the victim now. you came on here disrespecting the founder, bt team, and developers.its cool to have an opinion that plugins cost alot,there should be plugins. now you're trying to post forums rules that the people you dissed created.if you're hiding behind another profile,you know we help and never rude.you made a new profile knowing you were wrong.thats foul.if you really are new ,we're here to help,but don't disrespect us.we dontvplay that.im done with this thread

Let's move on....

Eh, you're not yet a member so do we need to worry about the rules? # justasking

Famous quote by Evelyn Beatrice Hall (1868 – June 1956) springs to mind. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

@CMCOFFEE. I think you need to read my original post again. I gave high regards to Dave the founder of BT and you as well because in my opinion you are one of those people who I believe have priced their plugins reasonably. But since you want to call someone out, have you read the review that a user left for you about your “Brick Breaker” plugin. Probably not. Please read below: Posted by pulverdingen “I hate to do this, for I think this would be a really cool plugin, however I can't get it to work. I have sent emails to the developer and have had no reply. Perhaps this review will reach him so that he can help me out a little with this. After the sale support??” Word of advice: Fix your plugins and respond to customers first before picking a fight with the Kamel because he might bite your head off. Refer to my profile pic.BTW, I love the joke that Steve M said. You are a funny guy maybe we can do lunch one day. I think I might just join Buzztouch officially and create a plugin and sell it for millions of dollars so I can be rich like MacApple. Probably buy myself a Buzzjet. Before I buy the jet and build my Buzz mansion I will make sure to give back to the community. Lastly, I truly love the dedication and support among the BT community. You guys rock including those who told me I was crazy and felt I was a closet user. Have a great day everyone! Kamel (BTW, I am truly a nice person. Curious but nice!)

'I want to hear other people’s thoughts on this matter.' (Da Kamel quote) I'm not a plugin developer, I'm a plugin buyer. OK, just 6 thoughts: 1. It's outrageous to talk about outrageous prices when you buy a plugin + support + help + all future features of this plugin (as most plugins are further enhanced after their initial release)... for maximum 30 bucks and for minimum 0 cent. 2. All plugin developers give good support... even if sometimes there are delays or if posts get 'lost' in more than 20,000 threads and ziilions of posts. 3. Most plugin developers enhance their plugins for free when a user gives them new ideas or reports weaknesses. Hats off! 4. Some plugins are so powerful and open so many possibilities that they could decently be more expensive. 5. BT and plugins are far cheaper than hiring a developer to build your projects. 6. A nice Kamel is a Kamel that walks unmasked. Drop it down! Cheers Jack

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