I have an iPhone 4 (not a 4S), and for some reason I updated it to iOS 7 (well, mostly so I could test my apps), and now I want to throw my phone into the street and have it run over by a truck! Be warned...everything on the web about how terrible your phone will work after updating to iOS7 is true. It runs so slowly, and so many apps crash, that it's almost unusable. And there's no easy way to go back to a previous level, so I'm pretty much stuck. Just thought I'd share an experience! Mark

does a itunes restore override the updated ios version?

All my research suggests that you can't go back to an earlier version using iTunes...that you have to use some sketch third party hack to make it work. I hate the thought of loosing any data, so I'm sorta stuck.

Odd... because on my iPhone 4S it works brilliantly, although sometimes I do miss the traditional iOS look.

@Thomas...yep, that's exactly why I posted this! Apparently it's good on the 4S, but has performance problems on the 4. I must say it's extremely infuriating to have a phone that move so slow!

I used to have a 3GS and I found it was OK until I upgraded the ios version. If I was into conspiracy theory, I'd say this is Apples way of enticing you to upgrade...

Lol! I believe that as well AlanMac. It's like that with everything they own. Unfortnately if you want to use Mac products, you will need a prenup as it's going to be a rocky marriage, lol!

I totally believe that they make older products less attractive and less productive as the years go on. Even my Macbook Pro 13" (Early 2011) is running slower with Mavericks. It's quite frustrating!

I hate to say it, but it looks like Apple took a page out of the Microsoft playbook to force upgrades... When I upgraded my 4S to iOS7, it was a very frustrating experience. Slow, painful, app crashes... I felt I had to upgrade my phone. I just got a 5C, performance is ok. My MacBook Pro runs sooo sloooow now with the recent updates as well. Painful. I will not upgrade this one, costs too much. -Greg

I remember you telling us that you were trying to avoid iOS7, hehe. It used to be much easier to downgrade with jailbreaks, no idea now. I'm sure they've made it harder. Wife's 4S works perfectly now. Hopefully some people read your post and stay the heck away from updating! (seems unusual for apple to say the least) David https://buzztouchmods.com/market

Yep, I was going to avoid it, but couldn't resist the temptation, mostly because I need a device to test apps on that's running the current iOS. From everything I've read, 4S and above are safe...just us guys with old stuff that are exposed. Mark

Wait for the 6 and upgrade, I usually try to skip the S versions! Funny that you say the 4 is old.. technology must be moving fast, I still remember clearly when it was the hottest thing in town. David https://buzztouchmods.com/market

@AngryNinja - Yep, I saw that too. Makes me a bit nervous though!

Yup... that's stuff that I did ALL the time back in my jailbreaking days. Perfectly safe as long as you have backups of your data (not that things go wrong often, but always always backup for the unexpected). You could just wait it out Mark! But will things get better, or will it always keep the phone slow? David https://buzztouchmods.com/market

My guess is that the 4 will always be slow as an "encouragement" to get me to upgrade, which I'll eventually do I'm sure!

Yep, same here... I jailbroke up until about a year ago... really no need to these days. The only thing I miss is my MyWi app, which allowed me to make my phone a personal hotspot without paying AT&T for it. Still, not much can go wrong, especially if the phone is to the point of not being usable now. Like David said, I'd just wait it out... but if you find yourself not using it anyways, try downgrading, and worst case tell itunes to restore ios7 if you get stuck.

Yup.. I'm actually interested in seeing how slow it runs on your phone. If you still have it by the time buzzday comes around you'll have to show me! David https://buzztouchmods.com/market

I'll still have it!

So true about Maverick slowing down the MacBook. With xcode it can be incredibly slow. The simulator sits blank for a couple minutes - long enough for me to be sure there is something terribly wrong with my app. Then comes to life, as if to say "just fooling"

That's strange about the MacBook Pro. I have a mid 2009 with no issues. But it's true to say that last year I did up the ram to 8gb max. Also upgraded my hard drive. Maybe throw some memory in the mbp!

I think that Mavericks has speeded up my computer drastically. But maybe that's because I'm on an iMac that is connected to the plugs. But I notice that the RAM usage is not as high as it was. It feels like I have 15GB, when i only have 12GB.

Same here, Mavericks actually seemed to speed things up. 2012 11" Macbook Air 2ghz Intel Core i7 8GB Ram 250gb Solid State HD

Also, on a post above, somewhere, MrDavid says he always avoids the S models. I don't do this, for a reason. And here is my theory: "The hardware is only really changed with the S models" I always think that when Apple change the design, that's all they change. And although they may advertise they have got new chips, they are hardly ever improved. Example: The iPhone 5 was just an iPhone 4S with a longer display. This is what i believe. However, when the 4S came out, to replace the iPhone 4, many hardware changes were made, and Apple generally improved the phone in manny ways, including new cameras and a new chip. But when Apple realised the iPhone 5, was there a new camera? Another example would be the 3GS over the 3G. The newer 3GS was a vast improvement. It was twice as quick, supported the newer armv7 architecture and so on. And I think apple may have pulled off the same trick with the iPhone 5S. I think the breakthrough will be the 64-bit chip. Although it's a pain for app developers like us (or rather David Book), this is the key to the new iPhone. I've yet to find out whether the 5S is good. My mum ordered one last week (I had to beg her not to get the 5C) but it has yet to arrive. Hopefully, it will be a big improvement from her iPhone 4!

@Thomas interesting, I do have my contract that always ends when a new non-s model is released, so that is also something that pushes me to avoid the S models, although thats a convenience thing, not a "logical" thing. So with all of this talk on S and regular, where the heck does the c stand in all of this? David https://buzztouchmods.com/market

My Macbook only has 4Gb memory in it (max 8Gb), so maybe that's the problem. I'll have to save up and get some more! Mark

You definitely want to do that, doubling your ram WILL make a difference! David https://buzztouchmods.com/market

I'll have to put some on my Amazon wish list!

As MrVanBeveren said before, it makes a massive difference. I started out with 4GB, and within a few months, I upgraded it to 12GB. It has dramatically improved the speed. It is the second best thing to Solid State Drives.

I've left my iPhone 4 at iOS6. No plan to update. My MacBook Pro I've upgraded from 4GB to 16GB, and it's a very nice speed increase. Not 'blazing' fast, but no delays in anything. And I can run everything at the same time. I have a 1GB 'Hybrid' drive that peforms well, but not exceptionally fast. I would have thought it would be faster, but it's about the same. I think the spindle is only 5400 rpm rather than 7200. I've updated my Xcode to 5, but I'm afraid to touch Mavericks just yet. Still gun shy from years of early adoption only to find it means 'not ready for prime time' more often than not. Just my two cents. Thanks for the heads up, Mark. It reconfirms my decision to stay with iOS 6 on the phone. My wife's iPad2 is my new iOS7 test bed. Cheers! -- Smug

More memory certainly seems to be a common thread! Gonna start saving the pennies. Weird (bummer) that mine only goes to 8Gb. Got a first gen iPad also...can't do anything with that! Mark

Oh Mark. Just last week target had an offer to trade in 1st gen iPads for $200 credit. I did it and upgraded to the air for only 279 plus tax. I wish I had of posted the news in the forum. Was kind of busy.. I had to jump on it because I knew I couldn't get rid of it at any price higher than 150 or less :/

Nice! With the holidays coming up, I'll keep my eyes open for more deals like that!

I have both mac mini and iMac 24in, then I have my dell hackintosh built with http://www.tonymacx86.com/home.php , full mountain lion legit install on a core2duo chip with 32gb of ram it actually sees the dell as 64bit MacPro tower w/4slots of 8gb It's 100 times faster than my iMac. It helps when I have to injest client footage into final cut studio has usb3.0. So I'm using this hackintosh https://www.dropbox.com/sh/oz8lc0hfig7ahh4/LpcSa9cimH as my App Developer station for buzztouch and game salad plus the adobe cc suite phone gap sdks, etc. Once I got all the xcode projects finalize, I port it over to my iMac's xcode package it there to comply with Apple's EULA. The mrs is letting me buy the new MacPro black tube with my buzztouch money, lol, I've got all my phones on the AT&T next plan so I can pay for all the devices to test on, I've got the 4s no issues on iOS7, just waiting for my 5s to come, want to see if the 64bit is worth it. Most stores I know have a buy back deal for upgrades.

Ed, I think you're the first person I've heard with a 'hackintosh' that actually works. Any special tweaks that needed to be done? Cheers! -- Smug

I just want to add that back in high school i turned my asus laptop into a Hackintosh that worked fairly well. Jeremy

@smug, the first generation of boot loaders for core2 intels like for snow leopard were not stable, tony's boot loaders for lion to mountain lion are better and detects more hardware compatibility issues the trick is from my imac purchase the mountain lion then package it to transfer to usb stick. then make sure if your using a pc that it matches the software requirements for xcode, mountain lion and anything over a core2duo so its 64bit, graphic cards etc, its far more economical to upgrade pc hardware then mac, unless you have the tower. motherboard memory is important to if you are going to need 4 slots or 2 or 8. follow the instructions, the setup will bong, and bam you got a macpro hackintosh, i tried to see if it will upgrade to maverick, it wont, so im just gonna wait for my xmas gift to myself macpro comes out. Tony does have instructions to bootload maverick, but heck mountain lion is working for me and xcode and eclipse.

Back in those days I was still trying to run OSX on my Windows. I couldnt even do that. EdReyes, you are insane, would love to meet your hackintosh. David https://buzztouchmods.com/market

@David, when I first got my Alienware super machine, I installed Vmware, found a macosx package installed it and a redhat linux package. so on my 3 monitors I can run simultanious os off my windows 7 ultimate. was cool cause i was able to run my lamp server to test out wordpress stuff, i can drag and drop content from mac to windows no problem. My system has 24gb ram and 12 cores, so allocating enough to my vmware mac was not an issue. I'm just geeky like that, never know until you try.

Love Hackintosh :) @ed What video cards do you use in your builds? I need some good low profile PCI express and those GEForce ones barely fit in some of the mini cases I've tried to stuff them in. I'm iffy on NVIDIA ones. I believe Mavericks is required for that new version of Xcode. I'm updating soon myself. I've submitted tons of apps and my buddies I've built boxes for have all compiled and submitted on hackintoshes, Apple can't tell the difference.

@atrain no need for maverics for the new Xcode, you can run 5.0.2 fine without it. But no less reason not to get maverics! @Ed gotcha. You've convinced me to take a look at these new options ;P David https://buzztouchmods.com/market

@Mark, if you're going to upgrade the RAM in your MBP, check the prices of the 2x8GB sticks also. Even though Apple says 8GB max, its actually 16GB max on your model. See here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro I've got 16 in most of my macs (mostly because I have a 27" Thunderbolt display that allows me to do 14,000 things at a time) As for your ios7 problem, I feel for you. I'm sitting pretty at ios6, and will stay there until Steve Jobs pops out of his grave and puts me in a headlock and forces me to update. (Although I think I could take his skinny ass, even if he had some added zombie strength). -Chris

Yeah, I just found that out last night! I went to crucial.com to check out prices and scan my system, and it said 16Gb, which seems more on par with what people are saying in this thread. I wonder why Apple low balls it? I resisted going to 6.x on my iPhone 4, but I guess the lure of 7 and being so far behind made me abandon all my senses! Every day brings a new frustration. We'll see how long I can take it... Mark

7 is a beautiful operating system, anyone could have fallen for it. It's just poopy that it works so badly on the iPhone 4. Mark, from the looks of it, in this article, apple was prepared for it to slow down on the i4 and tried to do a few things to speed it up. http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/09/new-lease-on-life-or-death-sentence-ios-7-on-the-iphone-4/ Interestingly, there ARE more things you could do to speed it up. With the latest iOS7 release, you can stop animations, that SHOULD speed it up considerably since the iPhone 4 cannot handle the animations it uses for iOS7. @Chris, if you became a zombie, would you still do buzzcasts? David https://buzztouchmods.com/market

@Mark.. In my area this week Walmart has an offer to trade the ipad for a $165 value. You might have luck!!

@mysps - thanks for the heads up!