There are more then 100 plugins right now and it seems that each and every day new ones are coming to the market. That is very good and that is what Buzztouch needs in order to be taken seriously as an all round app making site. However, there are are some questions that beg to be answered. I'll pose some of them and feel free to chime in with your ideas. 1) Are two versions of the practically same plugin allowed in the marketplace? Today I have read of one such case. A plugin is in the market since April 2013 and a new plugin of the same kind, from another author, appeared. The new plugin seems to be a copy of the old, but not necessarily so (I haven't seen either of the two, so I cannot say anything first hand.) The author of the first plugin complained and the author of the second plugin withdrew his plugin from the market. The new plugin had lower price too, so it seemed as a rip off with the intention of grabbing the market share by undercutting the price. (I say "seemed" because in reality that may not have been the intention at all.) I understand that when you are first to come to the market, you want to remain the only provider. Inevitably, competitors arrive and try to undercut the price or offer something better, or simply say "We are already famous in that field, we are new in this field, but still trust us and buy our new product." By way of an example, this is how Google first appeared with Chrome browser versus Internet Explorer and FireFox, and this is how Internet Explorer appeared against Netscape back in the day. Case in point: if the second provider of the plugin refused to withdraw the plugin from the market, what would be the official reaction of Buzztouch? 2) There is a lot of code published on gitHub and most of it can be reused. Most plugins that appear here originated from gitHub in that manner, so there's nothing wrong in that approach. But consider this: there is an already existing plugin in the market and I go to the source code of that plugin in gitHub and recreate the plugin in my own manner and offer it here as my own plugin. There are bound to be many similarities in the two plugins, right down to the source code. Should I publish it and create competition in the marketplace? I may be able to up my offer by offering lower price, better support, superior code or what ever, but still, what to do if the owner of the first plugin complains that it is a rip off even if it isn't? 3) That was the benign approach to creating similar plugins. Now consider the mean approach, which consists of plain ripping off the existing plugin and offering it as my own. The nature of open source software makes it very easy to do so. What if I offered it for $1 instead of $29.99? While this seems a most unethical thing to do, that scenario is more or less unavoidable. One plugin will not make anyone reach, but many little plugins may make up for a nice income allowing one to make a living through software development. Why should I reinvent the wheel when I see something that people already want to buy and I can offer it too? 4) iOS vs. Android plugins This one is specific to Buzztouch, at this point in time. There is a prevalence of iOS oriented plugins at the moment and the Android side is lacking. If I see a good idea on the iOS side and I implement the same idea and call it the same, will that be acceptable? The plugin author for the iOS may then say "Wait, that is my idea, I was just about to write it for Android but you stole my title, the idea and all. Wait for me till I catch up, will you?" I'd like to hear your ideas and thoughts, as well as the more "official" stance from the Buzztouch leadership team.

Dusko, Great questions. I don't believe making a plugin that is exactly the same as another one is acceptable. Now, if a plugin already exists but you can add to the functionality of the plugin and create a similar but better and slightly different plugin then that would be acceptable. I have also noticed a couple of the plugin authors tend to get code directly from github and just repurpose it. I have even seen some of the screen shots to be almost the same as what is on github. If you are going to use github you should try and at least add some of your own personality to the plugin. I have also noticed most of these github look-a-likes tend to be just slapped together and uploaded to the marketplace without debugging. As far as IOS vs Android, I think Android plugins should be encouraged. Personally I am an IOS fan because of the stability of the system. However, the Android market is growing at a rapid pace and I want to offer apps that work in both markets. If you create an Android plugin similar to a IOS plugin already in the market I say great. Using a slightly different name would probably serve the Android author better so users don't confuse the two. Michael

Up late preparing for the Hawk/49 er craziness to begin! Go Sea Chickens! ----Football fever only when it comes closer to the super bowl but I digress. ... I want to speak up as a consumer and even though I am not part of the leadership team I am a die hard super fan of Buzztouch. So please keep in mind that is where my opinion comes from.... As a consumer of the plugin market I WANT a choice! I bought the plugin just to see it be bullied down before I could even use it. That is just ridiculous. Personally I buy plugins to teach myself code. I also frequent github and dozen other sites for the same reason. To learn. I have been in both positions as a Plugin In Developer and As A consumer....and my thoughts are that the time it takes to get a plugin up and running not to mention the tech support (you will hardly get from github) is worth every dime of the price of that plugin. My opinion only put the plugin back in the market let consumers have a choice and stop belly aching over who was first. Don't buy it if you see a duplicate. Ok off to bed I go....thanks for listening and keep those great creations going! now group hug---well unless you a 49ner ----:) then will just shake hands until sunday Love ya guys! -Sheri PS nothing says there is anything against it the terms of service http://www.buzztouch.com/pages/terms-plugin-developer.php

This new plugin is no old story. Just when Jake released his, I was hours from releasing mine... For me, it was tough luck. I got slapped in the face and accepted it. This was a huge disappointment for me. I am quoting from Susan and David here, but they both agree "Duplicated plugins are fine, so long as there is no stealing of code" Obviously I think there is no stealing of another plugin's code, however te plugin does the same thing. In the case of our three plugins, there is no possible way to change it, because its an Apple framekit. I agree that having duplicates is good for the consumer. Look at phone networks. In Britain, we have EE, Vodafone, O2, Three, and more. In America they have, AT&T, Verison and Sprint. However they all do the same thing, and undercutting the competition on price and services. Monopoly is a BAD thing. It means we are limited to one company which can decide whatever price to use. (but Monopoly the game is quite fun) If you look on the plugin market, there are already a few duplicates. All the 'advanced' plugins are just duplicates. For example, Chris has got a plugin called 'Menu Image Advanced' while Susan has got the plugin 'Menu with Image'. Chris is taking sales away from Susan, for sure. But what I like about this example is that they both collaborated and decided that Chris could make an Advanced version. This is how duplicates should work. They should be 'advanced' but with the original developer's permission. And to those who are looking to do so, getting permission isn't tricky. All the plugin developers are kind and are very likely to accept your request. So, I stand by my point!

Aw put it up there Thomas I will buy it from you....put some cute css you are known for an it will sell! Wise beyond years young man! True leader there! :)

I have no clue what the 'BT Leadership' thinks on the topic. I can only speak for me. I think competition is good. As long as someone doesn't slap a new coat of paint on it and rename the variables, more power to them. I don't have many plugins on the market yet, but from my view the trend seems to be like this: 1) There are users that won't buy anything. 2) There are users that buy everything. 3) There are users that only buy what they need. 1 & 2 don't matter, and you'll know about #3; they're going to *not* read the read me and ask you a million questions. And if there are two plugins, then they'll grill both developers. Eventually plugin developers will cultivate a 'brand', and the community will be able to recommend a plugin purely from the developer reputation. But as long as only features and not code is duplicated, it's probably not going to matter. Ask Chevrolet and Ford. If you look at some of the menu code, some things are just plain repeated. It's hard to get out of some of the intrinsic listView code. The reason Susan and Chris' plugins look so close is because even if Susan's plugin wasn't a template, almost *any* menu looks like that. The BT Code 'theology' if you will, lends itself to code reuse. Heck, even my climate plugin looks like a menu plugin, because I based it on a Table/List View. We're still in our infancy, market and choice wise. I create my plugins because the functionality isn't available, or isn't available on both platforms. I'm slowly creating my 'dream' app, and there are still parts missing. I don't release plugins until they're complete on both platforms because I don't want to hear the inevitable 'when'. I'd rather not say anything until it's completely complete. :) I think I price my plugins reasonably, and I'm happy to say it's a good thing I don't create plugins for the income. If you're creating plugins for the income, don't give up your day job. I suspect eventually I'll recoup a bit of my time/expense of development, but fortunately for me, my "app" is why I create them, and the BT Market is just my 'sharing' the achievement. And I don't mind if someone wants to create a 'bigger badder meaner' plugin, if it's truly 'bigger badder meaner'. But 'at this stage' of the market selection, I'd rather see different plugins than a choice of similar plugins. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary. Cheers! -- Smug

Saw my name mentioned, figured I should respond. :). We've talked about this a bit behind the scenes, and you're comments are all on target. Things have to be evaluated case by case. If there's abuse, we'll take care of it. But Lord knows none if us really want to be the plugin police either. With the Menu Image Advanced plugin, it does seem to be a case of this. I wouldn't create a plugin for sale this way normally. When I made it, Susan wasn't interested much in making plugins (too much work for too little money). She didn't want to give up her revenue stream on what she had already done, but suggested I might make some alternatives. Frankly, none of us plugin developers really knew what we were doing back then - everything was an adaptation if existing code (David's or github's). I intentionally priced mine significantly higher in order to not steal sales away from her though. (Her plugin is still the best selling one of all the plugins on the market). If someone came and wanted to make an Android version of one of my iOS plugins, I'd say awesome - go for it! It will probably lead to higher sales of mine, and would be good for Buzztouch. But I'm not everyone. Some people have one or two plugins in the market. It's not easy for most people to create one. And it can be devastating to see someone else step on your creative toes. The best thing you can do is comminicate. If you think you can do it better or different, make sure the original developer is okay with that. They may already have the same ideas for how to improve, or they may be tired of dealing with support that they'd live someone to take some of the burden off. (Smug's right, there's a ton of support that goes with these things). Really, though, you're best bet is to create something new. If you notice my plugins, they aren't much like what else is out there. (Except Menu Advanced of course). I look at two places when coming up with an idea: Apps on the top charts of the App Store and cocoa controls. The latter is easy because half the code is written for you. (Making it work with a control panel is still on you, which is no small task in itself). Creating something from an existing app is fun and challenging - you have to get in the head of the original developer and ask 'how'd they do that?'. Oh, and the third source is simply your own creativity. If you see a need that exists, you're on to something. About being mean or malicious: don't. You'll end up wasting your time and ours. We do have the ability to take something down if need be, but don't want to be forced into that posture. But not only that, it's usually not worth it. My recent plugins have each made less than $100. Some are sitting around the $20 mark. I won't say what the hourly rate is on that! But the point is that making plugins is more about giving to the community and showing what you can do than it is about making a ton of money. Far better to rip off a convenience store if you're in the business of stealing.

One clarification to chris1.....I stopped making plugins for the plugin market because I had a role in the old market in approving and moving plugins on to the market. I thought there could be a conflict of interests if I made plugins too. But with the new open market, I will be back to making and selling plugins for the market. The money is still fairly small...no one is making a living with just making plugins. But as Buzztouch grows, the potential income from the plugin market will grow.

Here's my thing. And I don't want to step on anyone's toes so to speak. But, there are plugins in the market that are missing basic functionality that are not getting updates. After numerous requests from multiple people, these plugins are still stagnant. And, this, I would think is the developer's loss. If someone comes in and creates the same plugin with the requested functions that the developer failed to capitalize on, I would think this is a scenario where it would be Ok for someone to upload a similar plugin.

I forgot to add, Sheri. Go Hawks!

My hope is to have a place for reporting issues with various plugins that developers can keep track of.

Great thing about buzztouch is free speech and the freedom to let a member or user grow! Anyone can get on the web and get code. I try to keep mine free so I can give back to buzztouch, as buzztouch has been very kind to me. If you see a plugin in one version (IOS or Android), please create the other version if you can! I got a lot of e-mails wanting me to create an IOS version of Audio/Voice Notes plugin, but I refuse, because there is already an IOS voice recorder in the market. I believe there is a "special unwritten rule" not to do it but this is only my opinion. Can I get on the web and copy and paste code and put it in the bt plugin market? Of course! But, this is not the way I wish to conduct myself. LA

Just to throw it out there. I would be willing to invest some time and spare hosting space to setup a bug tracker for all plugins. Let me know if there is interest and I will get it rolling.

@AussieRyan - I'll get one going this weekend.

AussieRyan, there's interest, not just from the BT team (see above), but also from newbies about to join the ranks of plugin developers (hi there!). Developing plugins is perfect for the way I learn programming languages, so I'll be developing some, and I really want there to be a bug tracker for my plugins to help me maintain and roadmap them. Also, as a user of plugins (app developer), I'll want to have a way to report bugs I find in plugins created by others.

I think there should be competition, I see no problem in similar plugins, obviously I'm not talking about rip offs, buying a plugin, making a small change and sell it as new. But using the same core code from github and doing it your own way, sounds good. And as I buyer I also think its good, plugin prices have gone up a lot since the market reopened, competition is always good. In the end most of the times you'll end up buying from the developer with better reviews and better known around here. Miguel

Darwinism will eventually propel the supported plugins to the top. The older plugins that have bugs and have not kept up with the times will fall to the bottom. Competition is good and healthy for the Market. Github projects thrive because one can Fork a project to make improvements and changes. Then one can also give those changes back to the original author as a Pull request. For improvements to existing plugins, stand on the shoulders of those giants. Give your changes back to the original plugin author. Let them publish those updates. Then you can move onwards to the next great thing, a brand-new plugin! :-) However, if you have an idea for an existing plugin to take it on a different path, then a discussion between you and original author should happen as a courtesy. We are not ruthless people. Courtesy will always prevail in this Community. We are brilliant people in this community: as Helpers, as Developers, as Users, as Testers, as Designers and as Idea people. It takes a team of teams to make all of this operate as a smooth engine. Forge new paths, create new capabilities, make new plugins. Expand the vitality of the market. It's been going quite nicely. Keep on trucking :-) -- Niraj

Great conversations as the community evolves… Here’s my thoughts… Despite the best intentions and effort… a marketplace model that is that considerate of past plugin makers is … unsustainable. Now I’m not talking about clones of plugins. I think we’re already all on the same page about that. But for new plugins that do similar if not the same functionality … I believe the competition is good for everyone. Consumers: Get greater choice, and multiple ways to make the plugin that works best for them…work for them. Marketplace: Lots of options… hmm reminds me of….every other app store out there. there are tones of similar apps on the app store. what is not tolerated is cloning, or brand or other IP being stolen or misrepresented. I think that principle should apply here also. The good plugins will be well lauded, reviewed and talked about by all of us. in the same way, the bad, old, or in need of updated ones will be chastised. Competition will hopefully lead to innovation which will serve us all. Plus, lets not forget the power of the community to police foolishness when it happens (remember how we all came together when that bible wallpapers app was cloned on the Apple app store?) The fact that the community is still so small, and it is clear by the status points, who has the clout etc here… I think it’s ok that those who really will do a good job will be around for a while. others..looking for a quick buck…well as mentioned before…will likely disappear when they realize “this is not the gold…you are looking for” Developers: maybe hard to see for some, but as a developer, you can launch first (get the first mover advantage, bring value to all BTers, and be rewarded for that contribution.) If someone is ripping your code off, By all means take a stand. But don’t stifle competition simply because you were there first. it usually ends up frustrating you more than anyone else… and if you are really dedicated to being better, it requires you to stay ahead of the competition anyway (basically…it’s a lot of work anyway). I know many may not agree with me on that… but thats fine. I can see both sides. I know I want to learn this year how to make plugins myself, because there is a lot that even the existing ones don’t do for me, and it’s frustrating at times. I would expect that many who build plugins are doing so in response to an unmet need/feature/convenience….and not simply out of shady motives. At the end of the day..I think the marketplace and users are very much “What have you done for me lately”…vs…”I remember the time”… so if u are constantly updating and making enhancements to your plugin… you will reap the rewards. IF you just make it and let it be…well … you know what happens to apps on your phone which aren’t updated often? I would also argue that plugins which are 3.0 ready get a new designation or area to be recognized..cause nothing is more frustrating than thinking all of em work…and then having to reverse engineer a kazillion errors when you export to Xcode. Being able to know for sure which work on the new core, vs which are around for legacy OSes would be very valuable for me. @BT - can we make that happen? As for something I would pay for…. a short course on how to make plugins from component code like Github, cocoapods, cocoacontrols, chupamobile, binpress, etc….because being able to make plugins make me a better developer any day, than using a plugin ever will. Am I the only one that also sees this as a problem for just the 1%? (ok 3%)?? my 2¢s. €

Just to follow up - a plugin bug tracker is now available at http://www.buzz-tools.com

As an aspiring plugin developer (and as a user of plugins), I'm honored to be the first to say "AWESOME!"

Sheri - You've seen this right? http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/videos/NFL-Films-Presents-Phish-and-Russell-Wilson/95655374-d349-4fb4-906a-ef74974a7847 I'm thankful to the 49'ers for ending the Packers season- but that same 49'ers team ended many of my Bears seasons and they always manhandled us whenever we visited Candlestick. Still have nightmares. Definitely pulling for the Seahawks today. That chant gives the Phish fan in me goosebumps. Hope its played all day long. Love they put the 12th man flag atop the needle and hope to see Largent raising it today. http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1008/nfl.posnanski.32.great.receivers/images/steve-largent.jpg Wilson!!!

@atrain53 I'd prefer you to not hijack this important thread.

@Dusko Relax mate